Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/23/1993 01:30 PM House CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 23, 1993
1:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Harley Olberg, Chairman
Representative Jerry Sanders, Vice-Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative John Davies
Representative Cynthia Toohey
Representative Ed Willis
Representative Bill Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative Pat Carney
Representative Curt Menard
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 76: "An Act making a special appropriation to the
Department of Natural Resources for the purchase
of the inholdings of the Seldovia Native
Association and the Cook Inlet Region, Inc., and
the timber rights of the Timber Trading Company,
within the Kachemak Bay State Park; and providing
for an effective date."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH INDIVIDUAL
RECOMMENDATIONS
Bills previously heard:
HB 206: "An Act relating to the regulation of election
campaigns, and providing for regulation by the
Alaska Public Offices Commission of elections by
electrical cooperatives."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS
RECOMMENDATION
HB 32: "An Act relating to reimbursement of school
construction debt; and providing for an effective
date."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH NO RECOMMENDATIONS
HB 20: "An Act relating to the electrical service
extension fund."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE WITH NO RECOMMENDATIONS
(* first public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
Sandy Nusbaum, Legislative Aide
to Representative Gail Phillips
State Capitol, Room 216
Juneau, AK 99811-1182
Phone: 465-2689
POSITION STATEMENT: Read HB 76's sponsor statement
Karin Holser
HC 33 Box 3177 K
Wasilla, AK 99654
Phone: 376-6231
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 76
Anne Wieland
Kachemak Bay Citizens Coalition - Anchorage Chapter
1421 N St.
Anchorage, AK 99501
Phone: 276-5477
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 76
Katya Kirsch
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 22151
Juneau, AK 99802
Phone: 463-3366
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 76
Representative Eldon Mulder
State Capitol, Room 116
Juneau, AK 99811-1182
Phone: 465-2647
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor, HB 206
Representative Pat Carney
State Capitol
Court Building, Room 607
Juneau, AK 99811-1182
Phone: 465-2186
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor, HB 32
Gary Bader, Director
Administrative Services
Department of Education
801 W. 10th Street, Suite 200
Juneau, AK 99801-1894
Phone: 465-2875
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 32
Representative Curt Menard
Capitol Building, Room 405
Juneau, AK 99811-1182
Phone: 465-2647
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor, HB 26
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 76
SHORT TITLE: APPROP: KACHEMAK BAY ST. PK.TIMBER RIGHTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PHILLIPS
TITLE: "An Act making a special appropriation to the
Department of Natural Resources for the purchase of the
inholdings of the Seldovia Native Association and the Cook
Inlet Region, Inc., and the timber rights of the Timber
Trading Company, within the Kachemak Bay State Park; and
providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 129 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 129 (H) CRA, RESOURCES, FINANCE
03/23/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 206
SHORT TITLE: ELECTIONS AND ELECTRIC COOP ELECTIONS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MULDER
TITLE: "An Act relating to the regulation of election
campaigns, and providing for regulation by the Alaska Public
Offices Commission of elections by electrical cooperatives."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/05/93 553 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/05/93 553 (H) CRA, STATE AFFAIRS
03/16/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/17/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/17/93 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
BILL: HB 32
SHORT TITLE: SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION DEBT REIMBURSEMENT
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) CARNEY
TITLE: "An Act relating to reimbursement of school
construction debt; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/04/93 32 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/11/93 32 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/11/93 32 (H) CRA, HES, FINANCE
03/11/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/18/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/19/93 (H) CRA AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 124
03/19/93 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
BILL: HB 20
SHORT TITLE: ELECTRICAL SERVICE EXTENSION FUND GRANTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MENARD,Carney
TITLE: "An Act relating to the electrical service extension
fund."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/04/93 29 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/11/93 29 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/11/93 29 (H) CRA, LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE
01/20/93 117 (H) COSPONSOR(S): CARNEY
03/18/93 (H) CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/19/93 (H) CRA AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-17, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN HARLEY OLBERG called the meeting to order at 1:42
p.m. He noted Representatives Bunde, Williams, Toohey, and
Davies were present.
HB 76: APPROP: KACHEMAK BAY ST. PK. TIMBER RIGHTS
Number 024
SANDY NUSBAUM, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE GAIL
PHILLIPS, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 76, read the sponsor statement
into the record. (A copy of this sponsor statement may be
found in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee
Room, Capitol 110, and after the adjournment of the second
session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the
Legislative Reference Library.)
Representative Jerry Sanders joined the committee at 1:43.
Number 138
KARIN HOLSER, WASILLA, testified in support of HB 76 saying,
"We just heard this morning at the pollution prevention
conference that tourism has surpassed the fisheries and
mining industry here in Alaska, and it just seems to me that
tourists are not going to come down to Homer to look at
clear cutting."
Number 160
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS said, "(Do) I understand you
saying that now, we would rather have tourists here than the
timber industry?"
MS. HOLSER replied, "All I'm saying is: The economist from
ISER (Institute of Social and Economic Research) that was
speaking this morning was pointing out that tourism is an
industry that is going to be growing and growing, so we need
to consider it..."
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS asked if she agreed with the $22
million dollar price.
MS. HOLSER replied, "From everything I've seen yes, it seems
very viable. We've sort of been putting this issue off and
off and off, and the longer you put it off the higher the
price is going to be. If it's one that everybody can agree
on then we need to move forward with it. If we try to get
them to lower the price, I don't think they're in a
negotiating mood because, my personal opinion is, they've
been jerked around long enough."
Number 204
ANNE WIELAND, ANCHORAGE CHAPTER, KACHEMAK BAY CITIZENS
COALITION, testified in favor of HB 76 saying, "What you
have before you is an opportunity...to solve a longstanding
problem situation in a win-win kind of way. The
administration has put together a package. One portion of
which is from the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Trustee Council:
Money that was approved this January. A second part of it
is money from the Alyeska Pipeline settlement. The third
part is Representative Phillips's HB 76," and "We also feel
the $50 million criminal penalty money is the appropriate
source of funding for HB 76 given the language of that
settlement and also given the documented oiling of Kachemak
Bay in 1989..."
Number 283
REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY asked, "Is there any land
along the waterfront that could be used for development,
small lots for people to build cabins?"
MS. WIELAND replied, "There are lots of private inholdings
here and there in that area, and some of those are
subdivision holdings... Additionally, Seldovia Native
Association has an active leasing program in the area on
some of the remaining land they hold just outside the park."
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS said, "I am from a timber industry
area, which is Ketchikan, and I believe that clear-cuts, if
they're done correctly, are good looking." He then extended
an invitation to Ms. Wieland to show her this. He added,
"Timber is a renewable resource, it will grow back. So I
would appreciate it if everybody else would see that this is
better for the state in a different manner than say that
'clear cuts are ugly'."
MS. WIELAND said she is familiar with his district and,
"This is not a logging issue. This is a completion of a
package put together by the administration. That is how we
view it. All of us live in wood houses. I use paper. As a
result, I am very cognizant of this issue that you raise."
Number 328
KATYA KIRSCH, ASSISTANT, ALASKA ENVIRONMENTAL LOBBY,
testified in support of HB 76 and added, "However, we
believe also that this legislation should address a broader
range of habitat projects around the oil spill affected
area. The Alaska Environmental Lobby would like to
emphasize that the environmental community, as well as many
other Alaskans, believe the remaining criminal money should
be spent on habitat projects and acquisitions. These
include acquisitions around Cordova, Frog Neck Island, the
Kenai River, Kodiak Archipelago, and other areas. Money
should also be set aside for fisheries projects around
Kodiak, Kenai and Prince William Sound to mitigate fisheries
damage by the oil spill."
Number 372
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE commented, "It's very difficult for
me to spend seven and a half million dollars to buy dead
trees when I'm under assault for reducing budgets for
schools, seniors, welfare and that sort of thing."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I think that's why this proposal's
for only seven million."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE continued, "I feel so much better...
But, as their is such a large constituency that seems to
want this. I will vote the will of that constituency."
Number 385
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "This seems to me to be a bill and an
issue that truly needs to go to the floor of both houses of
the legislature for final resolution."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE MOVED that HB 76 be passed out of
committee with individual recommendations. There were no
objections, and the MOTION CARRIED.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG called a short at ease from 2:05 to 2:06
p.m.
HB 206: ELECTIONS AND ELECTRIC COOP ELECTIONS
Number 414
REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 206,
testified on the two new work drafts he supplied the
committee. He said, "(The CS with) the last letter K does
not include the amendment as proposed by Representative
Davies. It does, however, include the amendment by APOC
(Alaska Public Offices Commission). (The CS with) the
letter O includes both the APOC amendment as well as
Representative Davies' amendment. The APOC amendment
requires that APOC be notified by the appropriate clerk, to
let them know who the list of candidates are. I consider
that to be a friendly amendment."
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER continued, "The Davies' amendment,
includes the stipulation that these cooperatives could opt
out of APOC regulation by a vote of their membership. After
deliberation, with the individual that actually wrote the
amendment, I concluded that for the spirit and the intent of
the legislation as I drafted it, I would not consider that
to be friendly, in that it should be uniformly addressed and
put to every organization." He then recommended the
committee adopt the CS for HB 206 numbered 8-LS0686\K.
Number 443
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY made the MOTION to ADOPT the 8-
LS0686\K CS as the committee's working draft.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES OBJECTED and said, "There are
many different kinds of communities around this state. This
would make it mandatory for every community around the state
to be under the APOC regulations. Some of these problems in
the smaller areas of the state where this might still apply,
however, more than 10,000 customers, have relatively
informal elections. There aren't large power groups out
there manipulating to control things. So I think by having
the option to opt out, we would allow the communities to
tailor according to their own likes, what kind of public
process they want."
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said, "We do make an allowance with
the 10,000 customer threshold which, coincidentally, is
probably larger than any of our house districts, in terms of
voting populations... There are only five rural electric
cooperatives that are included and one municipal telephone
cooperative that is included in that membership."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY gave an example where HB 206 would
have alleviated some problems and been beneficial.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Williams,
Toohey, Olberg and Sanders voted to ADOPT the 8-LS0686\K CS.
Representative Davies voted NO. The MOTION CARRIED.
Number 510
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "It's not my experience that
this is a problem and it seems to me this just adds an
unnecessary level of bureaucracy and control. There's no
problem to be solved here in other areas of the state." He
then MOVED that "everywhere the figure 10,000 appears in
this bill, as it applies to the number of customers, that it
be amended to 50,000."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I've made some inquiries about,
thinking along those very same lines, and it turns out...the
problem that we're attempting to address is, in fact, Homer.
And Homer is unfortunately, 18,173 (members)." He then
OBJECTED to Representative Davies' PROPOSED AMENDMENT.
A roll call vote was taken on whether to adopt
Representative Davies most current amendment.
Representatives Williams, Toohey, Olberg, Sanders and Bunde
voted NO. Representative Davies voted YES. The MOTION
FAILED.
Number 556
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS MOVED that the 8-LS0686\K CS for HB
206 be moved out of committee with individual
recommendations. There were no objections, and the MOTION
CARRIED.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG called a brief at ease between 2:15 and 2:17
p.m.
HB 32: SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION DEBT REIMBURSEMENT
Number 570
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked at the onset, "Does this change
anything that we're doing now? Does this do anything now?"
REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 32, testified
addressing Chairman Olberg's questions: "Over the years,
quite a number of years in the past, 15 years perhaps or
more, the state agreed to pay a percentage of the debt
service for communities to bond themselves for building
schools. That percentage has varied from time to time based
on the sentiment of the particular people involved in
passing legislation. From 50 percent to 90 percent... In
1989, the bill passed, HB 37, which was supposed to level
the playing field of school construction statewide,
supposedly taking the politics out of school construction,
of prioritizing school construction to be built by the state
at the state's cost without bonding."
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY continued, "Unfortunately, because of
the great need for schools in the Bush from a health safety
point...most of the schools that are being funded directly
by the state are being funded in the rural areas. So I
believe, in order to give some relief to the urban areas
that need schools constructed now, we can't wait until they
come up high on the priority list..."
Number 593
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "Does this affect bonding that
currently exists...previously incurred debt?"
GARY BADER, DIRECTOR, ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF
EDUCATION (DOE), replied in the negative and said, "This is
an approach for school constructions and municipalities that
would be in addition to the current HB 37 process... In HB
37 it's a straight grant by the legislature. It's a
legislative appropriation to fund school construction. I
believe what's intended under this bill (HB 32) is that in
addition to that, municipalities would have the opportunity
to bond themselves and to construct schools and get
reimbursed from the state for a portion of the bonding
cost."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out, "There is a provision that
the Department of Education evaluate these requests. I
don't think it's a blank check."
Number 626
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said, "In fact the requirements for
these schools are identical to the requirements involved in
the priority one schools, that DOE has to go through the
same evaluation process and come up with a determination of
the need for the school."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "I can easily conceive there will
be more requests than money available. How are we going to
prioritize?"
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said, "In the first place these
payments begin two years after the bond has been incurred.
So there's a two year lag before you have to begin funding.
If it turns out that the funding isn't available, the
legislature simply short-funds. Instead of getting 70
percent, they get 50 or 40 or whatever we fund."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked, "If ten people requested and we
had enough money to fund eight at 50 percent, you're saying
then they would spread the money out over all ten at a lower
rate."
Number 640
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY replied, "I hope that wouldn't happen
but that's what traditionally happens if we run up short of
money. We prorate based on the requests.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG asked, "Aren't we already doing that?"
Number 642
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said, "On previous bonds that were
sold some years back, we're doing that, I believe."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "Those were funded at various
percentages, typically around 80 percent of the 80 percent."
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said, "So you see, we've been short-
funding 20 percent on our previous commitments."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG referred to the fiscal note. (A copy of
this fiscal note may be found in the House Community and
Regional Affairs Committee Room, Capitol 110, and after the
adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska State
Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.) He then
asked Mr. Bader if HB 32, aside from administrative fees,
would cost more than what is spent now "because the funds
still have to be appropriated by the legislature and
allocated by the department."
Number 652
MR. BADER pointed out HB 32 requires a DOE approval, but he
did not know if the approval was prior to the
municipalities' bond or after.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I can't imagine a municipality
doing that. There are a lot of questions asked when you try
to put an issue out to bond. The voters have to approve it.
And if the point was raised that you didn't have approval
for this, I'm sure the bond issue would go down in flames."
Number 681
MR. BADER referred to Chairman Olberg's earlier question on
the DOE's fiscal note. He said, "We have no idea how many
municipalities might decide to go out and bond for this so
these costs reflected here are simply administrative costs."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE suggested current DOE employees "pick
up the program rather than have to hire new employees."
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY concurred that HB 32 requires the same
tasks that are already being done currently at the DOE.
Number 699
MR. BADER said, "The legislature funded school construction
last year at a level of about 20 to 25 million dollars.
That's a handful of grants... This program, presumably,
there will be many times that amount of grants to approve."
TAPE 93-17, SIDE B
Number 000
MR. BADER continued, "I think it's a valid statement to say
we are looking at the grant requests as they come in, but
primarily what we're doing with them is we're taking them
and putting them on a list and ranking them."
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS agreed most of the work is being
done already and asked how many positions are requested to
work on the school funding bill, HB 83.
Representative Ed Willis arrived at 2:35 p.m.
MR. BADER indicated two positions, at approximately
$130,000, are included for the school funding bill, HB 83.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES clarified, "Most of the schools we're
talking about in terms of the approval part of the process,
have already requested approval. They're on the list in
some priority ranking right now, so there would be
relatively little, in most cases, additional work required
in that aspect of the project. If the program were to
blossom into some big program, there may be more ongoing
work in terms of oversight of the projects." He then
suggested the House Finance Committee address the fiscal
note.
Number 063
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out school funding is currently
being discussed in the House Education and Social Services
Committee. He said, "You're asking for a blanket 30 percent
match which would exclude many of the smaller communities.
But it also would excuse some of these larger communities
that the governor would ask for a 50 percent match. Have
you given any thought to that kind of graduated scale, three
levels of funding or something like that?"
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY replied, "We have to assume that some
of these schools will be built under the Governor's program
of prioritizing schools. I don't know how many... It could
be a decision by the community about whether or not they
want to take the 70 - 30 percent in bonding and build
schools they need now, or if they wanted to wait... I just
think this is an option..."
Number 133
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES made a MOTION to pass HB 32 out of
committee with individual recommendations. There were no
objections, and the MOTION CARRIED.
HB 20: ELECTRICAL SERVICE EXTENSION FUND GRANTS
CHAIRMAN OLBERG called an at ease from 2:38 to 2:40 p.m.
REPRESENTATIVE CURT MENARD, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 20, began by
testifying, "I was involved in the legislation that set up
the small electric grant fund (Title 44.83.370) a few years
ago which was a 60/40 match... One of the things that upset
me with the way we structured the Alaska Energy Authority
(AEA) fund, was that the Executive Director makes the total
grant applications. ...Under this bill (HB 20), the AEA
directors would make the decision after receiving the
recommendation from the executive director. It would also
require the directors to state, in writing, the reasons for
awarding or denying applications."
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD then read his sponsor statement into
the record. (A copy of this sponsor statement may be found
in the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee Room,
Capitol 110, and after the adjournment of the second session
of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the Legislative
Reference Library.) He added, "My contention is: I feel
homesteaders that are on generators on the end of a line
have every bit as equal access to that fund as a large
commercial development. All I want is a level playing
field."
Number 242
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY pointed out she probably has a
conflict of interest because she "lives on a road, seven
miles out" and has no electricity. She then asked, "Does
this include municipal property?"
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD was unsure.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "Almost by definition, this is going
to be people beyond the end of the line. It isn't going to
be folks in town."
Number 288
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "I don't have any problem with
requiring the directors to consider a cost benefit analysis,
but I think oftentimes public policy considerations come
into play where the right thing to do is not necessarily the
one that's most cost effective." He added, "I wonder if you
would consider a friendly amendment to modify that in such a
way that it said they shall give consideration to this, but
not necessarily give priority to them."
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD explained in detail the financial
mechanisms involved with HB 20.
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "You're suggesting that if we
eliminate the lowest costs per customer criteria, we need
some other?"
Number 352
REPRESENTATIVE MENARD said, "Your eight customers would have
to get together with your utility. You'd have to have all
your eight customers willing to sign up for it. The utility
would give you the estimate on what it would cost. They
would tell you what your forty percent is. You'd have to
divide that forty percent up..."
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said, "My concern is that there are
many varying circumstances around the state, and if we
happen to have a circumstance where there's only five people
at the end of one particular line... I'm just wondering if
we can allow the board of directors some (discretion)."
CHAIRMAN OLBERG said, "I'm on record as suggesting that you
can't pass a piece of legislation in the state of Alaska
that's equitable throughout the state."
Number 409
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED that HB 20 be passed out of
committee with individual recommendations. There were no
objections, and the MOTION CARRIED.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN OLBERG adjourned the meeting at 2:40 p.m.
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